Curse

Twin Blade Warriror · Mar 29, 2008, 07:16 PM // 19:16

uhh it really depends on u dude..if u r goign to play pvp or pve with the char..most likely pve...i would go with rit since i really cant play a mes in pve..but mes > rit in pvp

Cuilan · Mar 30, 2008, 03:14 AM // 03:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

not mesmer.... obviously

Interesting how it's only obvious to you.

Coloneh · Mar 30, 2008, 03:22 AM // 03:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

Interesting how it's only obvious to you.

uhm... do you read? its obvious to every competent poster that rits are better in PvE. end of story...

Cuilan · Mar 31, 2008, 09:51 AM // 09:51

I didn't know typing and navigating on a forum had that much to do with actually playing the game.

Pyro maniac · Mar 31, 2008, 10:21 AM // 10:21

ritualists
saying that mesmers are harder to play, thus make you better is utter bullshit. Pack you move like a dwarf and you've got your interupt.

Coloneh · Mar 31, 2008, 08:37 PM // 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

I didn't know typing and navigating on a forum had that much to do with actually playing the game.

its pretty easy to tell who has the IQ of your average house pet by the sort of posts they tend to make.

and if you dont see any argument the ritualists are better maybe you should try reading the ten pages of this thread.

ritualist > mesmer

Cuilan · Mar 31, 2008, 09:33 PM // 21:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

its pretty easy to tell who has the IQ of your average house pet by the sort of posts they tend to make.

and if you dont see any argument the ritualists are better maybe you should try reading the ten pages of this thread.

1. Yes. The people who seem to not be very good or new the game don't care for mesmers.

2. I did.

Captain Miken · Mar 31, 2008, 09:36 PM // 21:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

The Mesmer would be more complicated and challenging - essentially, you'll be doing a hell of a lot less for your team as a Mes than as a Rit, so your party will be weaker overall.

at the same time you'll be making the enemy party weaker overall [and essentially shutting down 2-3 key characters completely]

Terraban · Mar 31, 2008, 09:38 PM // 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

1. Yes. The people who seem to understand how the game works and are experienced with the game don't care for mesmers in PvE.

2. I didn't.

Fixed it for you.

You can thank me later.

Coloneh · Apr 01, 2008, 04:21 AM // 04:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terraban

Fixed it for you.

You can thank me later.

good job, i was about to do that

mistokibbles · Apr 02, 2008, 05:19 AM // 05:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by RavagerOfDreams

to name a few...

interrupting
making monks pull there hair out due to excessive diversion/shame use
making me pull my hair out for excessive clumsiness/ineptitude spamming

stripping enchants - shatter enchantment makes spirit bond go boom
i dunno just generally f@#$ing up everyone's builds?

o and btw your going to need a flame retardant suit for the imminent flaming you are about to get for the mesmer hate

I prefer rend enchantments over shatter actually. I have to admit, I haven't played a mesmer a lot but I've played enough. I much prefer a rit over a mes. Might be because I've tried to go interrupter with my extremely slow reflexes.
1.Shame has never really caused problems for me when monking. Diversion would get annoying only if it interrupted a key skill in my build.
2.Clumsiness and ineptitude never bothered me.
3.Rend Enchantments <33

Tyla · Apr 02, 2008, 03:11 PM // 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by mistokibbles

I prefer rend enchantments over shatter actually. I have to admit, I haven't played a mesmer a lot but I've played enough. I much prefer a rit over a mes. Might be because I've tried to go interrupter with my extremely slow reflexes.
1.Shame has never really caused problems for me when monking. Diversion would get annoying only if it interrupted a key skill in my build.
2.Clumsiness and ineptitude never bothered me.
3.Rend Enchantments <33

Shame can be casted through with a low energy set. Diversion is sorted by pre-veiling, and escentially the strongest dom skill there is in my opinion.
Shatter Enchantments is best used for spike assists in GvG.

visitor · Apr 12, 2008, 07:10 AM // 07:10

Well on topic i think you should make a rit. Even though LOVE mesmers its very much easyer to get a party as a rit with the communitys attitude being like Colonehs

Off-topic. Ranger will never be better att interuptions than mesmers.Dazed you say try [skill]Migraine[/skill] . As an added bonus Mesmers dont use projectiles.

Tyla · Apr 12, 2008, 12:45 PM // 12:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by visitor

Off-topic. Ranger will never be better att interuptions than mesmers.Dazed you say try [skill]Migraine[/skill] . As an added bonus Mesmers dont use projectiles.

When you hit a dazed enemy you interrupt a spell if the enemy is casting a spell. That is what makes it better than Migraine for PvE affairs, not to mention you can spread the daze with Epidemic.

You forgot to mention. Projectiles also offer a little thing called "Prediction Interrupting", and D-Shot for bows.
Also, you can reflex interrupt (average reflex is 0.25) up to 3/4 casts on a Ranger regardless (at half range, unless you have a 0.1 reflex). Anything below 3/4 casts is quite pointless to reflex interrupt anyway.

And Ranger interrupts don't only hit spells.

DarkSpirit · Apr 12, 2008, 04:52 PM // 16:52

Yes dazed is the most powerful condition in the game against casters and the ranger probably has the easiest way to spread that.

On the flip side, being a physical class, the ranger is vulnerable to blocking, blind, miss hexes, dodging (when BHA is shot from far), and obstacles to line-of-sight. Epidemic is not used well by heroes and heroes have the superior reflexes. In PvP, simply casting [Spirit Shackles] on the ranger and condition removal would make BHA quite useless.

In PvE, mesmers have [Cry of Pain] which is 100 armor ignoring in-the-area AoE damage every 12 seconds, for rangers, if they bring [Broad head arrow], they can't bring [barrage], so mesmers dont have to rely on daze to interrupt and they can deal nice armor-ignoring damages even on interrupt builds on their own.

PvE human rangers can interrupt a single target more easily than mesmers using BHA and even spread it with [Epidemic] then [Volley] to interrupt more than one, ONLY if the casters are standing shoulder-to-shoulder. If they bring Epidemic, they can't go /Rt and bring [Splinter Weapon] to help with their [Volley] so their damage goes way down without help from another party member. Also they can be shutdown/blocked/dodged/blinded/miss more easily and if they go BHA, they dont generate as much damage as an interrupt mesmer.

Tyla · Apr 12, 2008, 04:59 PM // 16:59

I fail to understand you on the "Mesmers don't rely on daze to interrupt".

Daze gives your ENTIRE party Warmongers Weapon, but only affecting spells.

I also stated in my post that anything below 3/4 cast is generall stupid to try to reflex interrupt, unless you're the AI. Regardless, Ranger and Mesmer heroes share the same reflexes, and as stated already, it's not like microing your heroes every 15 seconds is hard to do.

Also you forgot that Rangers still have Volley, which is better than Barrage because it's not elite and allows you to bring a much stronger elite. Heck, Barrage's only half decent purpose on a Ranger now is filling up SY fast.

DarkSpirit · Apr 12, 2008, 05:18 PM // 17:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

I fail to understand you on the "Mesmers don't rely on daze to interrupt".

Daze gives your ENTIRE party Warmongers Weapon, but only affecting spells.

I do agree with you that daze is the most powerful condition against casters (read my first sentence). But if you resort to daze from BHA, then you are missing out on other elites.

Quote:

I also stated in my post that anything below 3/4 cast is generall stupid to try to reflex interrupt, unless you're the AI. Regardless, Ranger and Mesmer heroes share the same reflexes, and as stated already, it's not like microing your heroes every 15 seconds is hard to do.

Perhaps, but that is assuming you monitor your ranger hero constantly throughout the battle and watch if his BHA is recharging, by the time you do that, many things can happen, Herta or another hero/hench may have dispersed them with her Sandstorm for example. If the hero can cast it himself, right after daze, that would be best.

Quote:

Also you forgot that Rangers still have Volley, which is better than Barrage because it's not elite and allows you to bring a much stronger elite. Heck, Barrage's only half decent purpose on a Ranger now is filling up SY fast.

If you bring BHA, it already takes up your elite slot and if you bring Epidemic, you are not bringing Splinter Weapon without relying on external help. You can configure a ranger to be a better interrupter than a mesmer (provided all those shutdowns that I mentioned can be avoided) but by doing that, you miss out on damage.

Tyla · Apr 12, 2008, 05:29 PM // 17:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

I do agree with you that daze is the most powerful condition against casters (read my first sentence). But if you resort to daze from BHA, then you are missing out on other elites.

BHA is the most powerful Ranger elite for PvE. What other elites am I missing out on, now?

Quote:

Perhaps, but that is assuming you monitor your ranger hero constantly throughout the battle and watch if his BHA is recharging, by the time you do that, many things can happen, Herta or another hero/hench may have dispersed them with her Sandstorm for example. If the hero can cast it himself, right after daze, that would be best.

I sort of agree. But these macros are pure /win.

Quote:

If you bring BHA, it already takes up your elite slot and if you bring Epidemic, you are not bringing Splinter Weapon without relying on external help. You can configure a ranger to be a better interrupter than a mesmer (provided all those shutdowns that I mentioned can be avoided) but by doing that, you miss out on damage.

I usually bring Splinter Weapon off my Ranger. It's much stronger on other things. And BHA doesn't waste an elite slot, in PvE, it's beyond worth it.

Also, a Ranger is much stronger than a Mesmer in terms of interruption, pressure and survivability. Mesmers are strong in hex shutdown (Diversion, Shame). They also have faster recharging interrupts that are cheaper and can affect non-spells.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

In PvP, simply casting [Spirit Shackles] on the ranger and condition removal would make BHA quite useless.

Why are you using BHA in PvP?

DarkSpirit · Apr 12, 2008, 05:51 PM // 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

BHA is the most powerful Ranger elite for PvE. What other elites am I missing out on, now?

I sort of agree. But these macros are pure /win.

But that degree of micro management is pure annoying. It is not like you are casting an enchant for your hero that lasts for 10+ seconds and forget about it.

You have to watch if skill 1(BHA) is recharging first, then if it is, try to use skill 2(Epidemic), only if it is not a solitary caster, then hopefully your hero would just use skill 3 (Volley) for each group of casters. BHA has a 15s recharge so if the stupid ranger hero has used it on a solitary caster you have to wait. If I am a SY paragon, I would have missed several good opportunities to shout SY by then if I have to micro my ranger hero to that extend.

Quote:

I usually bring Splinter Weapon off my Ranger. It's much stronger on other things. And BHA doesn't waste an elite slot, in PvE, it's beyond worth it.

If you bring Splinter Weapon on your Ranger than you are not going /Me to bring Epidemic right?

Quote:

Also, a Ranger is much stronger than a Mesmer in terms of interruption, pressure and survivability.

Depending on the build a Mesmer can have high survivability too. My artificer mesmer has 89AL, so not all mesmers are squishies. As for pressure, 100 AoE armor-ignoring damage with a chance for a skill-level interrupt every 12s in PvE from just [Cry of Pain] IS alot of pressure.

Even without interrupting, [Cry of Pain] would still generate 100 AoE armor-ignoring damage to all foes in the area. Ranger can be configured to be a better interrupter than a mesmer but at a huge cost to damage.

Quote:

Mesmers are strong in hex shutdown (Diversion, Shame). They also have faster recharging interrupts that are cheaper and can affect non-spells.

Actually hex shutdown is quite limited in PvE so I only use it as a secondary role on my mesmers. Rangers have faster recharging interrupts in general and can affect non-spells interrupts.

Quote:

Why are you using BHA in PvP?

Yes I said BHA is useless in PvP, another point you should consider.

Tyla · Apr 12, 2008, 06:02 PM // 18:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

But that degree of micro management is pure annoying. It is not like you are casting an enchant for your hero that lasts for 10+ seconds and forget about it.

You have to watch if skill 1(BHA) is recharging first, then if it is, try to use skill 2(Epidemic), only if it is not a solitary caster, then hopefully your hero would just use skill 3 (Volley) for each group of casters. BHA has a 15s recharge so if the stupid ranger hero has used it on a solitary caster you have to wait. If I am a SY paragon, I would have missed several good opportunities to shout SY by then.

Is using macros really that hard?

Quote:

If you bring Splinter Weapon on your Ranger than you are not going /Me to bring Epidemic right?

Solved by either bringing Epidemic on a hero, or bringing Splinter Weapon on a hero.

Quote:

Depending on the build a Mesmer can have high survivability too. My artificer mesmer has 89AL, so not all mesmers are squishies. As for pressure, 100 AoE armor-ignoring damage with skill-level interrupt every 12s in PvE from just [Cry of Pain] IS alot of pressure.

Ranger can be configured to be a better interrupter than a mesmer but at a huge cost to damage.

I always use shields on my primary caster sets. Survivor insignias on all pieces of armour, and shields.
You also forgot spreading around poison via Apply Poison is alot cheaper.
And you forgot that Rangers usually only bring [distracting shot] and [savage shot], and the rest of their bar for versatility. Their damage is mediocre at best, and Mesmers don't deal very nice damage, but very nice shutdown. If I wanted damage I would take something stronger. Warrior anyone?
Rangers aren't ment for pure damage anyway...

Quote:

Yes I said BHA is useless in PvP, another point you should consider.

Then why did you mention using it in PvP?